Messenger Audio 22.2 (17-Dec-1982)

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(0:05) ...only on those two pages he repeated that sentence. (0:08) There was no place else for him. (0:09) Once I was just reading. (0:11) You know what I'm talking about? (0:13) I was just going around. (0:20) I didn't notice that. (0:22) But you know, I knew. (0:25) Readers, I think, also are. (0:26) It's not a style we live in, (0:28) when you speak to so many other people besides you. (0:32) Yeah. (0:33) If we found him another day, sir, (0:35) he'd put it all away. (0:35) I don't remember exactly. (0:36) Oh, thank you. (0:37) It's all right. (0:41) You know, what's interesting is that (0:43) he never said, uh, (0:45) salam alaykum, (0:46) salam alaykum, (0:46) salam alaykum. (0:50) Yeah. (0:55) I hope to see that in the book. (0:58) But at the same time, (0:59) this guy did a good job. (1:01) If you want to put it in the book, (1:03) put it in the book. (1:07) It's impossible to do that. (1:10) Well, I sympathize with him. (1:13) Most people get to hear things. (1:15) And also the stumbling, the old stumbling. (1:18) It was not a wise word. (1:20) Because the book, (1:20) he didn't understand what it means, (1:23) but he got it. (1:23) He was stumbling on something great. (1:27) He never said stumbling. (1:29) But still, (1:30) it's just idiomatic. (1:34) It actually describes what happened. (1:39) Well, I think it's accidental. (1:53) That's one part of the book. (1:56) He was stumbling on four pages (1:57) on the (2:00) agreement of things (2:02) which he doesn't want. (2:05) Yes, yes, yes. (2:12) Don't confuse me. (2:15) No, very good. (2:17) This is the ultimate confusion. (2:18) If you can't write the census, (2:20) the census is... (2:22) He doesn't know at that time, (2:24) because he doesn't know at 19. (2:26) He's lying. (2:27) No, he doesn't know. (2:28) He still doesn't know. (2:32) I just mentioned the book. (2:34) Wait a minute. (2:38) No, you should remember. (2:40) Yeah, I forgot, really. (2:41) If I remembered, I would have missed. (2:43) Time makes you forget. (2:49) I think it's very important. (2:50) I think that's the whole thing. (2:53) That book that I showed you. (2:56) This person says (2:57) that he provides the Baha'i. (3:00) Like 19. (3:02) It has nothing to do with the founder. (3:04) It has to do with Baha'i. (3:06) Baha'i is unknowable. (3:09) Is that right? (3:10) Why? (3:13) Because... (3:14) Yes, yes. (3:17) Sometimes (3:18) some of the prayers of the Baha'i say (3:20) Allah, you are the owner of everything. (3:23) But it means that we will not take anything. (3:25) You know what the Baha'i says? (3:28) Yes. (3:53) But this means only one thing. (3:56) This is why it is (3:57) related to the Arabic. (4:00) The Baha'i can never entirely (4:03) mistake the Qur'an. (4:07) It is the source of life. (4:10) However, they make a lot of superstitions. (4:11) The date of the birth (4:14) of the founder. (4:17) Even that is very bad. (4:18) Because they are using the English here (4:20) in relation to using the Hebrew here. (4:24) But in other words, (4:26) if people use it for the wrong thing, (4:28) it's no argument at all. (4:31) But it's very clear. (4:32) This woman in 1917 (4:35) provides 219 (4:36) in Greek. (4:37) I mean, (4:38) 419 because of the numerical value (4:41) of wine. (4:44) It's entirely significant. (4:57) I was in Algeria. (5:01) Yes, I was in Algeria. (5:04) 1977. (5:11) Yes. (5:12) Yes. (5:18) So did you like it? (5:21) Very much, but I... (5:24) Some people were nice to me. (5:25) Others were not nice. (5:32) The newspaper men were nice. (5:35) But the ministers did not want me to go to (5:37) the hospital. (5:39) They were giving me a car. (5:41) They were giving me a hotel downtown. (5:44) They were giving me a hotel downtown. (5:48) No, this was in the town of (5:49) Maouloud. (5:51) Katania. (5:53) They were giving me a car. (5:55) They were giving me a hotel. (5:56) But they would not allow me to go to Moscadane. (5:59) So I refused the car. (6:01) I refused the hotel, and I went to (6:02) sleep in the room of the consul. (6:06) You'll be there. (6:08) You'll be there. (6:10) But you went there. (6:15) They don't talk about him at all. (6:21) About... (6:22) I don't know. (6:23) In Algeria, you don't hear about him. (6:28) I started to hear about him more (6:30) here than in Algeria. (6:31) I wrote a book about him here. (6:34) In the 20th century. (6:39) And I wrote about him. (6:41) In fact, I keep (6:42) one of his quotations. (6:47) I don't know anything about him. (6:51) Do you have the book here? (6:54) No, I don't have it. (6:55) Do you have something about him? (6:57) I have it somewhere. (6:57) I have it somewhere, but it's hiding. (6:59) It requires a book. (7:02) Do you know anything about him? (7:04) Do you know anything about him? (7:04) I came here in 1959. (7:26) You're Egyptian originally, right? (7:28) Yeah. (7:29) When I came here to the university, (7:31) I taught for one year. (7:34) I was an industrial researcher (7:35) for a company. (7:37) Then I was a science advisor (7:41) for two years. (7:43) I was a gadatic advisor, (7:44) science advisor for two years. (7:46) Then I joined the United Nations. (7:50) Can I borrow this? (7:51) Can I get a copy of this? (7:52) I'm trying to get as much material out of these rednecks as I can. (8:02) Oh, you're worse than me, Frank. (8:04) You have a chance. (8:06) We have a lot in common. (8:08) You know him, I mean. (8:10) Yeah. (8:11) I don't think he's a good man. (8:13) What do you think of him, anyway? (8:16) He's a bit crooked, you know, like the rest of us. (8:20) He's now trapped in keeping the throne. (8:25) He's a dictator, isn't he? (8:26) So what's his position about it? (8:28) Is he a good Muslim? (8:29) I don't think so. (8:31) He has some habits that he inherited from his father. (8:34) He prays five times a day. (8:36) He talks about Islam, but he doesn't apply it. (8:39) He did apply it. (8:39) He's opposed to the Hadith. (8:42) Only for a final reason. (8:45) He had this statement written in Bilboad. (8:49) He had this statement in Bilboad throughout the country. (9:00) It was throughout the country. (9:03) And then after making it the motto of the nation, (9:07) he put it in the official papers of the country, (9:09) the government papers. (9:12) Everything throughout the country. (9:13) And then he discovered it was not a Hadith. (9:14) Because it said under it, Hadith Sharif. (9:17) And the Bilboad would say, (9:19) this statement is under Hadith Sharif. (9:21) And then he discovered it's not a Hadith, (9:23) or somebody told him it's not a Hadith. (9:25) What was the statement in English? (9:27) It said, beware of the one that you're good to. (9:31) I thought he was opposed to Hadith in general. (9:34) But yeah, after this, then he constantly said, (9:38) who said this is a Hadith? (9:40) And then he studied about Hadith, (9:42) and the contradictions in Hadith. (9:45) And then he said, well, this one. (9:45) Maybe he made a discovery about that at that point. (9:49) Well, he was, but not anymore. (9:51) No, you made a discovery yourself at a certain point, too. (9:55) There was a time when you accepted Hadith. (9:57) Yeah. (9:58) And then you made a discovery about it. (9:59) I mean, for some of us, it would have come from outside. (10:02) This was the beginning, right here. (10:03) I wrote an article here. (10:04) But you know, he's trying to make some change. (10:09) This was my beginning. (10:12) This was my beginning of rejecting Hadith. (10:13) Change Quran. (10:14) Hadith. (10:14) Hadith. (10:16) Qaddafi? (10:16) Qaddafi. (10:17) Yeah, he's trying to make some change, (10:19) like the qol huwa Allah wahid. (10:21) He said, don't say qol huwa Allah wahid. (10:23) Say huwa Allah wahid. (10:24) Yeah, but he didn't really want to. (10:26) He was just making speech, talking to the people. (10:30) Qaddafi, you're supposed to say, (10:33) I seek refuge in God from the Jews. (10:36) Yeah, that's more academic, if not. (10:39) But they capitalized on it, his enemies. (10:43) No, I've heard that before. (10:44) Yeah, but really he doesn't want to change it. (10:46) He has no intention of changing it. (10:49) So, you see, this is why when I hear bad things (10:50) about all these leaders in the Middle East, (10:52) I wonder how much of it is propaganda. (10:54) A lot of it, yeah. (10:55) You know, because the propaganda machines are very active. (10:58) and we get things here sifted down through many layers (11:04) and you can only judge the man in the end. (11:06) History will judge people by their writings and by what they've done. (11:09) So I'm not going to be so fast to judge people. (11:12) From what I have learned, I hear what Gaddafi has done. (11:14) Some people say you can't buy vegetables now in Libya. (11:16) I say, look at him. You can't buy vegetables now here in Libya. (11:20) And then, you know, I've heard a lot of stuff (11:22) and I'm going to reserve my judgment about Gaddafi (11:24) until I have studied more of what he's read and written (11:27) and investigated it more. (11:30) Because what he's written, I've been very attracted to what he's written. (11:33) He takes a system theory methodology, what we call a general approach to him. (11:38) But you can also see things on many levels. (11:40) It would be also very helpful for you to visit Libya. (11:47) I wouldn't advise it. (11:48) I would like to read a lot of books. (11:51) His writings are really interesting. (11:54) But what he's doing, it's terrible. (11:58) I haven't been there, but some of my friends have. (12:02) So what did he do? (12:04) I haven't been there, but the Libyan people are not very... (12:12) He turned Libya into a big prison.