# Messenger Audio 2 (22-Oct-1982) {% embed url="" %} (0:00) ... but not the idea. Just because they are bad Muslims, do you have to throw Islam overboard? (0:08) Just because there are no Sufis, there are Muslims. (0:14) But he said, with the invasion of the Mongols, all of the universities died out, (0:22) except for the ones that just taught the Hadith, the Sunnah, and the legal jurisprudence. (0:29) And that the great expansion of knowledge, the development of algebra, the flowering of Greek thought, (0:36) all of these things that happened in the first three centuries of Islam, were eliminated from the university system, (0:40) and free thought, and all the other things that are necessary for growth in a society, (0:44) were replaced by repeating things that were old. (0:47) They became just encrusted, and they never developed, any farther than that. (0:51) That's his argument against his own argument. (0:54) Yeah, I mean, it's funny, he turns himself around on himself, at one point, and he never admits it, he never realizes it. (0:59) What would be different if you take this condition of conditional? (1:03) Both are equal. (1:04) They are the same. (1:04) Yeah. I looked up condition in the dictionary and it said conditional (1:08) Same. Yeah. (1:10) But I thought this would attract more attention. (1:14) Did you see the passage there? I was referring to the authority of the... and then he gives a number of... (1:18) He just can't break away from the Sunnah, you know. It's very difficult for them. (1:22) What do you think of this page here that he just read? (1:29) And he says here, look, 200 years after the death of the prophet, the compilers rejected as untrustworthy 90%. Nobody did. (1:39) Why did they say the 10%? (1:43) Even those who put the 10%, doubted the 10%, but they didn't want to counter it. (1:49) Because they're compilers. (1:54) Nobody did that. It's a long story. (2:02) The same thing has happened in Christianity, where the word of the Pope has become equivalent to the word of the Bible. (2:11) Therefore, it doesn't involve the Church doctrine. (2:15) Church doctrine is more important than the teachings of Christ. (2:22) But one thing is good, at least now, because we have no organized clergy. (2:27) You know, you can always keep on doubting the Jesus song. (2:45) Did you want to read that? (2:46) Well, I don't really have time right now either, but I'd like to get it later, maybe after this. (2:51) Later in the semester, the end of the semester. (2:57) Sure, I'll have to look at it, because I have... (3:01) Maybe I'll never be able to get it approved by the department. (3:05) But I would like to... (3:07) I have to, you know, in the next four years, I think about writing a master's thesis for engineering. (3:14) Well, I haven't come up with a topic. I'm only starting in the program now. (3:17) First semester, actually. (3:19) It would be nice to include a numerical analysis of the Qur'an, (3:28) ensuring that the probabilities that a book could be produced like this, beyond human capacity, (3:35) and establishing some basis for making your decision. (3:43) Decision-making process in engineering. (3:47) You've got it on probability. (3:49) Nothing has absolute certainty. (3:52) If you're going to make a decision, I mean, the first thing you study is statistics and probabilities. (3:56) That's the first thing you study. (3:57) But those predictions are based on probability. (4:00) It's a matter of how much probability. (4:06) Only, of course, facts are 100% probable. (4:11) But that's because they were false, right? (4:14) But those predictions are based on probability. (4:19) What I'm talking about is a decision-making process, (4:23) or an attitude towards a decision-making process. (4:29) Yeah, okay, well, this is beyond that, okay? (4:33) Most of these people do not seem to have in their own, you know, any direction for their own... (4:40) I mean, you have to make, I mean, if you talk about engineering, (4:43) you have to talk about what is your basis for doing some kind of a system. (4:47) Is it going to be what normally is considered to be in the society? (4:51) Is it caused by something? (4:52) How does it make sense? (4:55) That's the normal way. (4:57) Regardless of what it does for you. (5:00) Well, country development is, I mean, really, it's wonderful. (5:04) The decision-making process, whether to go with this design or not, (5:07) would be in accordance with the course of the course of the course. (5:11) And maybe there are, and yet, I discovered, (5:13) when you put this down, (5:17) he has a suggestion. (5:19) When you do something good for society, (5:25) from the humanistic point of view, that is an end in itself. (5:28) But from the Qur'anic point of view, you do good for society, (5:31) you do good for Allah. (5:32) I've said so in his book, the Great Deed. (5:38) Therefore, (5:39) you know, (5:41) in Islam, it's a duty (5:43) to bring about a good society (5:48) and a progressive society. (5:50) You know that's what the Qur'an says. (5:53) But in the modern man, (6:02) The mentality now, if you make profit, then that's, (6:06) by axiomatically, it's good. (6:09) It's what in philosophy we call utilitarian ethics. (6:12) A pragmatic ethic. (6:16) In a highly industrialized society, (6:18) what makes money is equivalent to what is good. (6:22) Whether it's good for the greatest number or not is something else. (6:26) He's making a statement here. (6:28) He says, (6:30) Islamic democracy being idealistic and absolute value-oriented, (6:34) the inner-directedness of its political and technical elites (6:37) generates a fifth type of that freedom of response. (6:40) He uses Gibb and Calhoun. (6:42) Yeah, he relies a lot on Gibb and Calhoun. (6:46) Elites are required to look upon power and authority as a trust. (6:50) They are motivated through an inner compulsion (6:52) to anticipate and ratify as far as possible (6:55) the latent, diffuse, or effective beliefs (6:58) of the people before these become greater than their own. (7:04) He's quoting somebody. (7:05) No, that's an 80-something. (7:08) That's a very good example. (7:09) As-salamu alaykum. (7:09) Wa Alaikum Salam (7:12) I mean, God has nothing against the Prophet, (7:14) but he's telling us don't follow his behavior. (7:20) That rules out sunnah right there (7:22) I was just telling him about an incident (7:27) my wife would teach me about the Koran class at the MSA (7:30) where someone was saying about the hadith. (7:33) Apparently, this guy has actually modified his position. (7:36) The hadith are not divine revelation like the Koran. He backed up. (7:40) Only they're divine revelation in the sense that (7:44) the Prophet's life is grounded in the Koran. (7:49) Someone was saying, when I don't understand the Koran, (7:52) then I go to the hadith for interpretation. (7:55) And my wife said, (7:57) why do you go to the hadith? (7:58) Why don't you go to God? (7:59) God is the only one who is going to guide you. (8:01) That's it. (8:02) Very good point. (8:04) That's exactly the point. (8:05) I thought that was a good thing for them to say. (8:07) You know, (8:09) you look at one book and you don't understand it, (8:11) so you look at another book. (8:12) Which is more complicated, actually. (8:15) It's a lot more difficult. (8:16) Books of hadith were written by people with different dialects, (8:19) different nationalities. (8:23) And they had complex minds, too. (8:27) Local dialects. (8:30) But we're reducing it all down to the English language, (8:32) so in one sense, that's not a problem. (8:34) But the question of... (8:36) Yeah, but how do you bring it down? (8:37) You don't understand the original text. (8:40) How nice this... (8:41) It's very difficult. (8:42) Very... (8:42) How nice this... (8:44) Batik? (8:45) Yes. (8:46) Batik? (8:47) Batik. (8:48) Yeah, I knew that, but I didn't... (8:56) He's quoting a lot of... (8:58) These are all lists of quotes in the Koran. (9:02) No, he doesn't quote a lot of them. (9:03) This is where he's making a statement about... (9:06) If one will take a watermelon and... (9:08) It's probably worth reading. (9:10) It's very well written. (9:11) No, I think some of the points he makes are quite valid. (9:13) I mean, because if you can recognize where he contradicts himself... (9:16) I think some of the points he makes are quite valid, (9:18) and I think what he's trying to do is really present an Islamic basis for system, isn't it? (9:25) He's not saying that... (9:28) You know, if you have an Islamic basis, (9:30) anybody who has an Islamic basis in their life, (9:32) whatever they do is going to, you know\... (9:35) They're free to do whatever makes good sense. (9:38) I don't have such bad eyesight, but sometimes I can see. (9:45) The engineer's making... (9:46) If he's got an Islamic basis for himself, (9:49) he's going to make decisions from that basis. (9:53) He doesn't have to look to the system to judge the problem directly. (10:01) You know what I'm saying? (10:04) No, but the system's approach, in general, (10:08) tries to give more and more integrative unity in the thinking process. (10:14) That's to say, you know, what I'm trying to say is, (10:17) the chair is part of the room, the room is part of the house, (10:20) the house is part of the community, the community is part of the room. (10:23) That kind of a mentality. (10:25) And if you really look at Islam, it's a very system-oriented approach. (10:29) Yeah, but I mean, you could have... (10:30) You can't unify everything because... (10:34) It's based on the principle of... (10:36) You know, a system can be made of objects or something there, (10:39) but are they required to be there? (10:42) That's another level of... (10:43) You know, in Islam... (10:45) I mean, to me, basically, the whole scientific thing is, (10:48) if you don't follow this idea, (10:52) you know, which is set down in the laws of nature, (10:55) if you try to defy the laws of gravity in order to make a plane fly, (11:00) you have to work with it, not deny it. (11:03) Yeah, but it's not so evident in the realm of ethics and values. (11:07) Because most engineering decisions, (11:09) when you talk about them, they're made on a utilitarian level. (11:13) Is it useful? Is it cost-effective? (11:15) Or in here, they're actually made on political choices. (11:18) Yeah, but I mean, this book is trying to put it in a more Islamic light. (11:21) It's talking about the reality of life in 1982 in America. (11:25) If it makes money for a big company, then it's good, (11:27) regardless of whatever else it may be. (11:32) But if in the long run, it goes against the good of society, (11:35) then it's against the good of the big company, too. (11:40) Unfortunately, these people are very short-sighted. (11:44) If they weren't so short-sighted, (11:45) they would have much more respect for the environment. (11:48) They would have much more of a slow attitude on development and nuclear energy, (11:53) which we don't fully understand. (11:55) And there would be much less of an attempt to increase. (11:58) Here, what I object to in the American culture, (12:03) is the instilling in television and media of the consumer mentality, (12:08) in which a person from the day he becomes a reward television (12:10) until the day he dies, he must be encouraged to buy something, (12:14) whether you need it or not, (12:15) whether it has any value in life or not. (12:18) Consume and produce, consume and produce, consume and produce. (12:20) This mentality, it's a hyper, super-hyper materialism, (12:23) which we've never known in the world before to this day, (12:26) where the mass of people, (12:28) the great mass of people are now able to consume (12:30) at a level that was never possible in the past. (12:35) If I am very vulgar myself, (12:37) the only alternative seems to be escaping to the third world, (12:41) to some place where it isn't. (12:43) I unfortunately have to work. (12:47) We will miss you, but another two months, (12:49) this schedule will be over. (12:51) Remember, work is a form of worship. (13:09) I have to see what my... (13:12) Why don't you go to the university office? (13:15) Well, I... (13:16) I'm taking three units, but... (13:19) Yeah, I can sign it up to... (13:21) Well, I mean, I could take it back and get it out on my own, too, (13:24) but it'd be the same amount of time. (13:26) But I don't have the time. (13:29) Yeah. (13:29) Well, I think you should. (13:30) I'd like to read it, but I don't think I have time right now. (13:38) We're reading the Quran over again (13:41) because we are starting over again (13:43) and the verse number where we stopped was (14:10) before we get to this (14:14) we really have to thank God for (14:18) enlightening us for being ... (14:22) because there was actually a tremendous parrallaism (14:26) that was discovered (14:29) last week (14:32) between Al-Fatihah and Al-Baqarah. Surah number 1 and surah number 2 (14:42) When you read towards the end of Al-Fatihah, (14:45) you say, (14:47) the path of those whom you bless, (14:54) not those who deserve wrath, (15:00) nor the strayers. (15:02) And then we come to surah number two, (15:04) and we find the three kinds of people. (15:06) First, the righteous. (15:10) This is the righteous. (15:14) And then, the disbelievers. (15:17) This is 'ghayral magdoobi alayhim, (15:20) The ones that incur or deserve wrath. (15:26) wa la da-leen is the third group, the hypocrites. (15:29) So now what do we think about? (15:30) I've been thinking about it the whole week. (15:32) And some of the people came to me and said (15:35) that now they have a whole new perspective on the reading al-Fatihah. (15:40) Fatimah was one of them. (15:42) Because when you're reading, (15:44) siratal lazeena an amta alayhim (15:45) you think of the righteous and all their definitions in surah number two. (15:48) and then when you say 'ghayral magdoobi alayhim (15:52) you're thinking of the people, the disbelievers, Who deserve wrath. (15:57) wa la da-leen ( The last words in Al-Fatihah, (15:59) when you read it we think of the last two groups (16:03) as detailed in surah number two, (16:06) which is the hypocrites. (16:09) Now when you think about it (16:11) alazeena an amta alayhim, those whom you blessed (16:14) are the righteous. (16:16) this is easy. (16:19) 'ghayral magdoobi alayhim, those who deserve wrath are (16:24) the disbelievers (16:27) they just have only two verses describing them (16:30) in surah number two, as you see (16:32) wa la da-leen no da-leen, who are da-leen? (16:36) the strayers. The strayers means somebody who started on the path, (16:40) and then got lost. (16:42) Lost his way. (16:43) He strayed off. (16:45) So these are the hypocrites. (16:46) Because the hypocrites, (16:48) they come to Quran. (16:50) And they come to Islam. (16:52) And then, somehow, they deviate. (16:55) So we're praying to God not to make us among those. (16:58) The rafaleen. (17:00) And it is an incredible observation that Deen Mahmood made (17:03) last week, (17:05) in that it uses the same word, (17:07) that the hypocrites are the ones who chose the straying (17:10) using the same word as we see in al-fatiha (17:14) instead of the guidance. (17:18) So the Arabic words, (17:21) are quite terrible (17:24) so now when you read al-fatiha you have a whole new perspective (17:28) and you can see the connection, (17:30) even though between Al-Fatihah and Al-Baqarah (17:35) were 13 years and (17:38) how many miles between Mecca and Medina, my - do you remember? 200? 300 miles? something like that (17:45) Between the first surah and the second surah (17:49) are 13 years and 200 miles. (17:53) But you see the connection that is absolutely (17:57) very watertight. (18:06) It proves that the Quran was actually written down (18:10) before the creation of the heavens and the earth. (18:13) But it was revealed on occasions. (18:18) Like when the Prophet turned away and frowned (18:20) from the blind, poor person. (18:23) Now this was written before Muhammad was ever born. (18:26) But it was revealed immediately after he did that. (18:29) It was released right after that. (18:32) The description of the Battle of Badr (18:35) was written before the earth was created, (18:38) but it was revealed immediately after the Battle of Badr. (18:41) And so forth. (18:44) So the revelation of Quran over a period of 23 years (18:47) was scattered. (18:49) And the verses and the surahs were (18:51) separated in time and place. (18:54) But the whole Quran, ... (18:56) was written down before the creation of the heavens and the earth (19:04) I don't want to take time . (19:07) Can I elaborate on what you're saying, sir? (19:10) I made some notes here, but (19:11) I cannot depend anymore on my memory. (19:13) I'm getting old. (19:16) What I'm going to say is just (19:19) something to think about. (19:22) I'm not pushing it, (19:23) because I'm not very sure of it myself. (19:27) But I think if Allah decides, (19:31) we don't go against Allah into error. (19:34) I would like to point to (19:37) six, verse six of surah one. (19:42) And in Arabic it is (19:47) ihdina sirat al-mustaqeem. (19:50) Just like you've been thinking about this for one week. (19:52) I've been thinking about it for one week. (19:56) It's this word, mustaqeem. (20:01) All the translations I've seen (20:04) are either straight, wrong, (20:07) or right. (20:09) They mean the same, actually. (20:10) And that's one thing that's very good in English. (20:12) When you say he's on the right path, (20:14) he's on the correct path, (20:16) he's on the straight path. (20:19) Now, I think ordinary Arabic also, (20:22) if I remember right, (20:23) this is the same word. (20:25) Always the right path. (20:26) The straight path, the correct path, (20:28) or the path that you ought to go. (20:31) Or the true path, so. (20:35) Now I was studying, (20:37) I was studying the root. (20:41) The root, (20:43) and here's where you have to help us, (20:45) the root of mustaqeem. (20:48) And I found out that there are two letters. (20:52) T, ta, and qaf. (20:56) So what entered my mind immediately, (21:00) although this is where I'm not sure if I'm correct, (21:03) is T and Q is also found in taqwa, (21:06) which means righteousness. (21:09) So I said, well, consult the dictionary. (21:14) So I went to (21:16) to the arrangement of taqwa. (21:20) Taqwa, there are many versions. (21:23) Talks of taqwas, righteousness, (21:26) and this is the most normal translation, so and so. (21:29) But I never found the word mustaqeem (21:32) under the heading of taqwa. (21:35) So I said, these are ordinary dictionaries, (21:37) I'll go to a Qur'anic dictionary by Penner. (21:40) The same thing. (21:41) Under taqwa, which is righteousness, (21:44) you're going to find the word mustaqeem (21:46) as one of the verbs. (21:50) So I went to (21:53) straight, or the verb qalama, (21:56) or karma. (21:58) And very interesting, (22:00) where the word qiyama, you know, also, (22:02) because the day of qiyama is the day of resurrection. (22:05) Because that's the day when you will stand up. (22:09) Also when you say takbir, that's qiyama. (22:12) And also, and so on. (22:15) Qiyama really also means the safe path. (22:18) And this dictionary says, (22:21) but this is what he says, the man, (22:23) in the Qur'anic dictionary. (22:25) He says mustaqeem (22:28) is based on the root qalama, (22:30) which means to stand up. (22:32) But he says, in the form it is, (22:35) it means righteous. (22:39) So I was thinking that, (22:41) in development of the, (22:43) it seems that these roots in original Arabic (22:45) meant the same. (22:46) T and Q meant straight, righteousness, and so on. (22:50) But as Arabic became more and more literary, (22:53) then it acquired new meanings. (22:55) And so, maybe, a guide to us (22:58) is always trying to go to the root. (23:02) Now, if this dictionary is correct, (23:04) if he puts mustaqeem under straight and so on, (23:08) number six can be read as follows. (23:11) It's just supporting the tradition that we have. (23:14) They're asking Allah, (23:15) guide us in the path of righteousness. (23:18) I'm supporting our atelier now, right? (23:22) Guide us on the path of righteousness, (23:26) the path of those whom you bless, (23:30) not those of the hypocrites, (23:35) nor, excuse me, (23:37) not that of the disbelievers, (23:39) nor of the hypocrites. (23:41) Which, as we say now, (23:43) is going differently to the understanding. (23:47) However, there is something that has bothered me, (23:50) that I think, in my own modest way, (23:52) and I would like to share it with you. (23:59) Looking at the versions of, (24:03) it's very good to talk of this manar, (24:04) this taqseer of manar of the Egyptians, (24:09) even Zamakhshari, (24:12) they all seem to be a little bit hesitant (24:17) in making a difference between (24:21) those who deserve wrath and the slaves. (24:24) A lot of the discussions has gone on (24:26) in difference between these. (24:28) But none of them has hit what we have been able to get. (24:31) None of them, as far as I know. (24:34) None of them. (24:39) Zamakhshari, Bailawi, Ibn Athir, and Manar, (24:43) which is on the last page of it. (24:45) None of them said that the answer is on the next page. (24:50) But they give us a lot of distinction (24:52) between those who deserve wrath (24:54) and those who are astray. (25:00) I think the conclusion of this opinion (25:03) is that we must not look at the hypocrites (25:11) and the kuffar, that is disbelievers, (25:15) as completely separate. (25:17) If we think that they are two different groups, (25:20) we will not be able to understand the Quran. (25:24) Now, be patient with me please. (25:26) Let us go to chapter 2, verse 8. (25:35) These are the hypocrites. (25:38) But look what Allah says. (25:40) The hypocrites, then there are those who say (25:42) we believe in God and the last day, (25:46) while they are not believers. (25:48) These are the hypocrites. (25:49) Therefore the hypocrites are also disbelievers. (25:54) the disbelievers will say we are disbelievers. (25:58) Yes then let us go to 19. (26:02) Verse 19. (26:04) After talking of the disbelievers and the hypocrites, (26:09) Allah says, after summarizing the characteristics, (26:12) He encompasses the disbelievers. (26:15) From this, and I don't want to take so much time, (26:18) we can arrive at the conclusion (26:22) that all hypocrites are disbelievers. (26:26) But not all disbelievers are necessarily hypocrites. (26:31) Because there are some people who say immediately (26:33) I do not believe, and they mean it. (26:37) And so, to use the language of mathematics, (26:42) the hypocrites form a subset (26:45) of the unbelievers. (26:50) If this interpretation is correct, dear brothers and sisters, (26:55) then let us go to 7 and 8 of Baqara again. (27:03) Surah 7, Allah seals their hearts. (27:06) These are the disbelievers, they are hearing. (27:08) Places veils upon their hearts. (27:10) They have deserved terrible retribution. (27:12) Now, 8. (27:14) Then there are those who say. (27:16) This must now be interpreted in brackets. (27:19) Then there are those among the disbelievers who say. (27:26) Among the disbelievers, there are those who say. (27:29) These are the hypocrites. (27:31) If you will accept this interpretation, (27:35) the rest of the chapter becomes very clear (27:38) why Allah says that these hypocrites really don't believe. (27:41) Another time, he just talks of disbelievers. (27:45) So, I'll put it this way. (27:47) All hypocrites are disbelievers, (27:50) but not all disbelievers are necessarily hypocrites. (27:54) And therefore, Allah is angry also at the ... (28:00) And as you mentioned, Ustad, (28:02) you cannot be astray from the path (28:03) unless you were there from the very beginning. (28:08) And that's why they have to live (28:09) in the lowest or hottest part of hell. (28:12) Because they saw the straight path. (28:16) There is no excuse. (28:17) They are those who are really ungrateful. --- # Agent Instructions: Querying This Documentation If you need additional information that is not directly available in this page, you can query the documentation dynamically by asking a question. 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